Post

Kayin
@kayin.moe

Like maybe Guy Uncharted will get a zero G-Segment as a plane crashes, it's probably in at least one of the games, but in no world is going to do so while riding an elephant

Kayin
@kayin.moe

I keep looking at this and like I genuinely think there is more things new games can learn from this, then this could learn from the 30 years of game design that came after it.

Kayin
@kayin.moe

TBF part of this is contextual. An arcade game is going to have little to learn from the history of design that came after it basically saying "Arcade games are bad, actually". Lessons it could gain would mostly come from the decade immediately after its release.

Kayin
@kayin.moe

I think some people look a design, or art trends a tech tree like oh we figured it out back then, so now we have that, and all this new knowledge too, so clearly we're better off! But those old skills decay if they're not supported. We've lost some skills to gain others.

Kayin
@kayin.moe

And you can say "Well indie games still do this stuff!" like okay no, indie devs mostly make one, maybe two games in the same genre and then do something else. They have tons of research material, don't build the genre skills many designers in the 90s built.

4 reposts75 likes

Kayin
@kayin.moe

Of course then you have ZUN making fifty million shmups and it turned out to work pretty well from him. But Gensokyo Georg is a statistical outlier and should not be counted.

vivian
@radiantsilvergal.bsky.social

and zun's style itself has a lot more of diving towards random ideas that interest him than trying to refine the core aspects over and over. he's definitely learned a lot about some things over the years but in some ways the early windows games still feel the cleanest and most unique to his style

Kayin
@kayin.moe

This is basically it, where the market right now makes developing those types of genre skills.... not impossible, but very hard. In exchange, we get a lot more artistic freedom, but it's important to acknowledge that loss of institutional knowledge.

Oni@tomasculine.bsky.social

Would it be a case of designers in the 90s building up genre skills as a byproduct of, well, them being employed to make specific genres of game over and over again?

Kayin
@kayin.moe

So I think the most interesting pressure with arcade games were competitiveness. You see people talk about how arcade games were unfair BS and that could be true, but they also had to give you something immediately. They needed a high Fun-to-Quarter ratio, while also being fast.

KTKlavi 🔞 Comms Paused@lavilavi.bsky.social

Somewhat on topic and curious to hear if ya have the time to espouse it. What are arcade design sensibilities? Growing up arcade games were always kinda neat but I never really got the chance to play em. And whenever someone brings it up I have no real context for it.

Kayin
@kayin.moe

So on the most superficial levels you have designs which have to immediately feel good in the hands, be visually arresting, be fun, while being fast and ALSO communicating some depth in that short timeframe, with emphasis on getting a lot out of very naturally intuitive game rules

FakeKraid
@terrainfirma.bsky.social

There were a lot of subtle arcade design elements that have been forgotten, including how to systematically erase all "down time" from an experience without making it too overwhelming to process.

K'eeg
@armormodekeeg.blacksky.app

Terarin's another dedicated shmup dev to keep an eye on, lots of games inspired by the Star Soldier series including the caravan modes but yes these tend to be outliers, partially due to a tendency of indies (and others) updating one game for years instead of making many new ones

Oni
@tomasculine.bsky.social

Would it be a case of designers in the 90s building up genre skills as a byproduct of, well, them being employed to make specific genres of game over and over again?