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How much do these animals suffer though? I think that most farmers try to take care of their animals well. The animals live in a resort, compared to nature? Slaughtering is done humanely. I am not sure if these animals suffer more than they would in nature (famine, predators, competition, survival).

Just watch any nature documentary to see how much nature sucks. Maybe our aim should be, it's ok to farm animals as long as it's better than nature. I'm sure most farming is a long way off that, but not all.

Any suffering is unnecessary because humans don’t require meat.

Yes, that is true. Their existence is unnecessary. But my objection was against the statement that their enormous suffering is a greater human crime than the wars we wage. Those wars are also unnecessary, I guess, as is human existence?

Hoe vaak moet worden aangetoond dat de dieren in de bio-industrie geen of weinig ruimte/mogelijkheid hebben om hun natuurlijke gedrag te vertonen, lijden tijdens leven en transport en dat er grote misstanden plaatsvinden bij de slacht? Binnen Het Systeem gaat het om efficiëntie en

is geen plaats voor liefde, rouwen, spel en uitdaging. Dieren in de bio-industrie hebben een kutleven, om het even kort te zeggen.

For a long time, I didn't grasp the scale myself. I was a pretty committed carnivore. Like most people, I had no real sense of what this system actually entails. And that ignorance isn't accidental—there's a powerful incentive to keep it that way.

Here's a comparison that makes the abstraction impossible to ignore: All wild animals on Earth: 100 million tons All farmed animals: 700 million tons When we talk about "animals" today, we're mostly talking about a few species bred and killed at industrial scale.

This isn't about moral purity or personal virtue. It's about facing reality. Because moral progress begins with a willingness to look—especially when what we see is uncomfortable.