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Initial prototype of a `<toolbar>` element is coming along. Largely piggybacks off the focusgroup code so it's actually quite simple to do. Lots to discuss and tweak before it's finished but got to start somewhere.

That looks like a use case for a custom element. What’s different with this native new element?

slightly off topic but what does happen when you put an element that shouldn't infer an implicit role inside the widget (like the input inside the toolbar or a link inside a tablist or something)?

They keep their intrinsic roles. I don't believe toolbar implies any, but tablist for example will set buttons to tab but most other items won't change role. Buttons was a recent change originally anything with its own role kept it, but I believe it was Sarah pointed out buttons really shouldnt.

What about keyboard navigation? do the elements participate in the focus group/arrow key navigation? I know this has been in discussion but I don't know if there has been a final decision on this

ok... but that is not scalable at all if we need to convince browser vendors for every such use case. I'm sure some enjoy the control that gives them but damn... Looks like the primitives need fixing instead?

We add what 1 or 2 new html element every 5 years (I'm ignoring the weird permissions element stuff). That doesn't seem too unreasonable? I agree some stuff (CSS and even JavaScript) does move too fast at times but html is pretty conservative. Fwiw we are doing the primitive that's the focusgroup 1/

...attribute which I think is the sort of thing you're asking for. It enables the single tab stop arrow-key keyboard behaviour. That's the heavy lift for browsers, but once we have that I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to make first class elements for these things. First rule of aria is 2/

Exactly. Better to have a native implementation everyone can use than 500 (likely inaccessible) versions—assuming one knows how to make custom elements at all.

"exactly - better rely on Google being the good guys" is your take? Remember these are the same people that tried to push WebDRM