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They are a formal system. You can analyse them with maths. You deny this because it doesn't fit your narrative, but it's factually true. It's pointless to continue because you think a formal system isn't formal. Good luck engaging with academics if you don't read their work.

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I have just read this 🤦‍♂️: > Together with humans (who generally decide what counts as ‘reliable evidence’), LLMs currently form a powerful hybrid epistemic system that functionally resembles a type of neuro-symbolic architecture, typically operating under external supervision.

The thread (on email) started with the latest results obtained "with the help of an LLM". Then someone suggested that the LLM should be added as an author, or something like that. Then the excerpt above came.

correlationism level 3 million "it looks like a real neuronal network therefore it is one" tell the person who said this that they have been doing this for decades and it's sad that they think matrix multiplication looks like interconnected cells compare: bsky.app/profile/kh0r...

Corey@kh0rish.bsky.social

This is why AGI isnt happening. Sense perception, movement, and memory are chemistries coupled to each other and all coupled to direct matter exchange with the environment, like a centrifugal governor. Nothing is representation, interpretation, “info processing”, or math.

Being able to analyze something with maths doesn't make it a formal system! A formal system is a set of axioms and rules that you can use to make logical deductions. LLMs aren't, because they don't really use "logic" most of the time, which is partly why they are so weird sometimes.

LLMs do use (derivative) probabilistic logics implemented on binary hardware which only ever is able to compute classical logics. This might seem weird as modern logics are formal systems lot of people dont know about and also human brains are incredibly bad at stochastics

Of course they use logic in the process, they're algorithms after all. But the end result is just a bunch of text, that, the way we interpret it, doesn't have to follow some specific set of axioms, or any formal logic at all.

they are though! they are doing many, many classical computations that in aggregate are hard to understand. but all of this math is still formally analyzable. you are being caught up in the surface (word prediction) and ignoring that we know how llms are structured!