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Unpopular opinion but if you're interested in the effects of a medical product, it's 'RCT or bust' for me. I can see the case for observational analyses when randomization isn't possible, ethical, or the condition is too rare or some other such thing, but there's no such excuse here.

Saloni@scientificdiscovery.dev

Worth noting that many (not all) of the observational studies so far have been funded by GSK, which sells the shingles vaccine. Vaccines are great and the shingles vaccine is also great (for shingles), but people have got to be a little more skeptical of observational studies funded by pharma IMHO.

Not running one when you have the ability (and incentive) to - as a pharma company with a commercial product that's still on patent - is hard to excuse. Just saying.

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Not ethical why? This would be an efficacy trial for its effect on dementia, not shingles, it's not universally recommended in most countries (though there's a case that it should be) and shingles vaccine uptake isn't very high anyway

I think it’s more complicated. There’s a hierarchy of outcomes. If a therapy has proven mortality benefit, then it would be hard to argue for new trials on for example dementia. Arguably, shingles is a less severe outcome than dementia.

I don't think people 'know' there's a benefit from shingles vaccines on dementia, but having a placebo group also doesn't mean withholding the vaccine in any case, since it can be purchased separately anyway.

If not universally recommended but researcher knows there is an established effect on shingles,is it really ethical to give a placebo without informing the participants they could benefit had they chosen to take the vaccine? I don't think so But you can't really randomise if you do provide this info

I think it's more of a cost/benefit analysis from a company perspective. A study is generally run to get an indication included in the label. The decision to spend the money to add an indication will depend on how much more drug will be sold with that indication. I'm not as familiar with dementia,

but I have worked on cardiovascular effects studies. I would imagine it would be similar in terms of the number of people and how long folks would need to be followed. This is a lot of money. And I think protective effects might not result in enough sales to justify it.

Very interesting there's already an RCT ongoing on this! It's quite strange though: unblinded, and the control group isn't asked to come in for tests or follow up. (But the whole population is in registry data.) I guess that would make it similar to a natural experiment, also unblinded.

minvaccination.dkDAN-ZOSTER – Shingles Study 65+We are seeking individuals aged 65 or older who wish to participate in the DAN-ZOSTER research study. The study investigates whether vaccination against shingles can reduce the risk of cardiovascular ...

I weight RCTs very heavily, too But wouldn’t you agree that most medical choices & decisions do not have RCT evidence (much as we’d like)? In many cases, we just have to do our best with bad evidence