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to weigh in on the arcade game discourse earnestly: i’ve been slowly getting into them more and more lately, playing both shmups and beat em ups, having a great time with both and i think they’re extremely inviting and fun and rewarding even and arguably especially at lower skill levels

A lot of what attracts people to continues can easily be solved by robust practice modes now that we all own the games we buy. Its more benefitial to push the practice culture arcade players already engage with (through save states), then the alternative

i just dunno if that’s true? i think continues have specific design benefits beyond practice modes. being able to play a run out after a death for practice while you’re doing attempts or slowly reducing the credits you need to clear are two, to me, valid and healthy approaches that you’d lose

i guess ultimately i think the ambiguity is a trade off; enforcing modes of play will reduce ambiguity and thus bad posts from people disingenuous to the genre like the one that started all this discourse but will it actually make those people engage more deeply or just turn them away?

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linking my thread on this here, but basically: if we actually wanted to resolve this argument we would inevitably have to embrace a data-driven approach, and i'm not sure that's a road i would want to go down in what is supposed to be an artistic medium bsky.app/profile/ziad...

ziad 🇱🇧@ziaddd.bsky.social

i’m torn on how protective game design should be of certain experiences. i personally don’t care when a modern release allows credit-feeding cuz i know how to engage with it meaningfully. the implicit question here is which way of presenting the game will maximize the number of players who “get it”

Couldnt you apply this to fail states themselves? If you signal when you are supposed to die, the right players will buy into it and restart themselves, making death upon reaching 0 hp a data driven approach forcing a similar experience upon everyone

In fact, now that I think about it, you can apply the same defence of continues on to infinite health, down to allowing the player to keep playing for practice, as long as you signal they are supposed to die here

For a lot, turning away, but turning away is temporary for some, some people later in life develop a taste for the style,etc. Dark souls turned a lot of people away at first too But if you dont see the game as a real choice, you will never second guess yourself, thats what continues did

There is also the aspect of, maybe its good to turn a lot away as long as some can be caught falling between the track. Its just not healthy that to get into Arcade games, you need to go through a cultural reprogramming by MarkMSX/Boghog/Me/DevInterviews/Friends/DerekYu

I said it somewhere else, but a game like Final Fight should either frustrate you out of it, or make you fall in love with it, its a problem that for so many its a middle ground where they dont really see it as a real game

i guess i just don’t think you need much reprogramming? my intent with my posts was to say, to people intimidated by the genre, that i think these games are much more accessible and easy to get into than their reputation suggests. they were made to be played by literally anyone

I think just like the way people engage with games has changed so much all the natural onramps aren't around anymore- no rental places, no arcades, no cheat codes to take the edge of, and constant internet connection negatively reinforcing/rewarding giving up or skill shaming.

I agree with that part, there are a very wide variety of arcade games, that can also accomodate a steady progression. But my point is that people cant find those, because they dont see them as real games. If you dont see something as a real game worth your attention, nothing in it matters