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I really do think a lot about how big tech systematically destroyed all the reasonably-safe places intended specifically for kids online…. and now powerful interests are turning around and claiming that we have to destroy Internet privacy because being online is obviously dangerous for kids.

Perhaps the problem is that we turned the Internet into an ever-smaller number of walled gardens run by vicious big businesses, thereby forcing children into the same shit-ass disinformation online soup with everybody else, instead of letting them have their own separate, smaller spaces

I do in fact believe we COULD create an online world that’s safer for kids without destroying everyone’s online privacy from big tech and repressive governments - but this would also require more and more nuanced work than the authoritarian sledgehammer solution of age verification.

I genuinely think that in the future we’re going to look back at this current era of “the internet is obviously deeply broken for everyone, and in response, we’re going to dismantle internet privacy while pretending it’s for the good of children” with deep embarrassment. Rather like Prohibition.

The Internet IS a festering plague-hole right now compared to what it once was and could be again, but the thing is that it’s awful for everyone, not just for children - children are just the canaries in the coal mine.

There also used to be so much more to do online that wasn’t inherently social.

I remember early BBSs, and I remember a lot of sexual predation. I recall hidden BBS areas where goodness knows what went on, a local BBS reportedly run by a pedophile, and BBS meetups where one guy brought his 12 year old girlfriend. I don't remember any safe spaces.

I don’t know if this is what Faine is referring to, but a good example of the now-gone kid focused spaces is Club Penguin. There were a bunch of sites like that which well predated it, and they were easy to overlook if you weren’t looking for them.

I think the thing that's standing out to me is that like...groomers aren't nearly as common as they're made out to be, but even if they were, "hey kid, tell anyone and you'll get in trouble for breaking the law" is one fucking amazing way to guarantee kids will hide it.

And even if the law is written so that it's the companies who allowed the kids on their platform who'll be in trouble, not the kids themselves, kids aren't necessarily going to be aware of that. They'll hear "kids are banned from social media" and think that does mean legal trouble for them. >

Or if they have a vague idea they aren't going to be in trouble but aren't sure, the groomer can absolutely tell them "no, you will be the one in trouble". And if the kid knows how to go look up the law for themself and understand what it says, they might be able to realise the groomer was wrong. >