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I really should've worded that original post better. But I was grumpy, and posting from the heart.

I haven't seen much folks talk about it, but many have been saying a benefit to doing the volunteer work gets them out of the prison and away from all the abuses that come with it like that's a good thing. It feels like it kinda takes away a bit from the whole "voluntary" bit of the program

It could be a valid step toward building actual restorative justice in the country, if done well. But as it is now it's clearly a way to exploit people in prison for labor.

To be clear, I'll fight that fight. But I don't expect it to be won in my lifetime. (I'm the kind of sick that never gets better and eventually, at some unspecified future time, will kill me. I've beaten rough odds just getting this far.)

California: This is awesome! We're saving so much on cheap labor for firefighters! People: That is a solid compromise, so with that extra money there will be an increase in the budget for experienced staffing and better equipment, right? California: We'll be able to massively increase the LAPD now

If anything, setting up what these folks would’ve been paid in a trust they get upon release would be huge for restorative justice and recidivism

Agree! People bemoan when "immigrants take jobs" because employers can pay them less. Then think it's ok for prisoners but don't think it will incentivize employers to use prison labor???(Not to mention incentivize imprisoning more potential cheap workers)

i also feel like its still incredibly coercive - yes there's nice perks, but if you're incarcerated and given a choice between risking your life for a chance at freedom vs riding out your current sentence, it feels like less of a choice and more of a justification of exploiting ppl

I doubt he disagrees.

Kind of makes you wonder who belongs in jail at all.

I like what you’re saying in this thread, but just want to correct one point here. The most a firefighter can make in camp in a month is roughly $1050 (daily pay + incident pay). I know this doesn’t negate your larger argument, but it does allow folks to parole with a significant amount of money.

How is this not just the rebirth of convict leasing? But instead of leasing the labor to private individuals and organizations, the state is using it to offset their own labor costs. The immorality of the system is the same regardless of whom the prisoners are performing the labor for.

incentivizes* This might be a wild idea, but the compassion and rehabilitation opportunities that are given to the kids giving a 90% discount to the state should be available to all prisoners. That's my "wild" theory.