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It is important to recognise that technical language (such as in use in mathematics) is designed to help *those already inside the subject*, and not those who are trying to get in. Learning proper terminology and learning proper concepts are not necessarily best done simultaneously. #UKMathsChat

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Wittgenstein's "The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" only tenuously applies here. As it turns out, the limits are oftentimes invisible and inconsequential. Technical language is there to increase throughput through bolstering precision. For most folks, going slow is fine.

Totally agree. I would say it’s important for A level (and some instances top end GCSE) but otherwise they just need to understand the concept and not worry about getting the precise word correct. If they can explain it correct in their own terms then it’s fine.

Let me give an example of the sort of thing I believe you're saying. If we have a right triangle, then knowing one of the (non-right) angles is enough to totally tell you the shape of the triangle, because you can figure out the last angle by taking the complement. (1/1)

That doesn't tell us the length of each side of the triangle, because you could double all the sides and get a triangle the same shape as the first one, but with different side lengths. But that's the only way that two things of the same shape can differ, by similarity. (2/)

So the *ratio* of any two given side lengths in the triangle -- that is, how much longer or shorter one is than the other -- is determined by that one angle. And if you start with two lines whose lengths are in that ratio, and put them at that angle from each other, and connect them up... (3/)

You'll get a triangle the same shape as the one you started with. And if you explain this, then immediately follow with "and so we have six names for these ratio, namely sin cos tan csc sec cot, and..." then you've just set everyone's chances of learning trig back by a year at least. (4/4)

I think I might be agreeing with you! I believe there is a stage of "getting a sense of" a concept which precedes and enables "making sense of" that concept. The transition is assisted by moving from an informal language of description to the technical language of definition. #UKMathsChat

I think at A level we often never move to that technical language of definition, (it's a bug bear of my sister who teaches at uni level that students don't come in with proper definitions). But I don't think students are helped by fuzzy language, which tends to be a problem with informal language.

It's tricky, because formal definitions really do require a certain level of mathematical sophistication that's beyond most pre-uni students (and is probably of no use to the vast majority of them). The interesting part is trying to get as *close* to formalism as you can!

Three examples come to my mind from precalculus: Interval notation, "coterminal angles", and f◦︎g notation for composition. In each case the language/notation is somewhat offputting for students, and so maybe it doesn't help them understand the concepts.

We were having a similar conversation in our department last week with regards to factors, multiples and primes. It’s much more important pupils get a sense of what they are and how they relate to each other (examples/non-examples etc) rather than give spot on definitions of each.

Old post but pinned so i ll go with my opinion. I would say saying terminology is unnecessary for novice is, to make an anology, "demagogic". Yes of course, concept, but I'd say even more so, developping intuition is crucial. And, btw, intuition is the real language that you cannot speak.

Ah, but I'm not saying that terminology is unnecessary for novices. I'm saying that we should consider carefully when we introduce it and try to do so in a manner that aids learning, not inhibits it.

But we need to exchange, explain to other, and explain to oneself. Mathematical terminology, there, is sometimes the most efficient, hence worthy to hear and use.

Not really an example of the above, but: A year 8 I teach, nurture set, with many students with educational needs and low prior attainments, are happy to use the word "cubed" when they see 4×4×4 and tell me their answer.

There's a big difference between teaching using "proper" terminology, and teaching using language that makes sense, but might lack precision or nuance. It can be very easy to get caught up in "correcting" language, and forget that you don't actually need it to understand the concept.

I think the opportunity to provide mathematics with good terminology has long since passed. We have to cope somehow with using (and, alas, inflicting on our students) the terminology that exists. NB: I hate 'you can't get there from here' situations.

A lot of the time, the people who originally introduced the terminology just needed something that worked for them and weren't thinking about whether students would need to be making sense of it.

Consider we have a sense of quantity but don't have numbers. We have stones that we can arrange in piles and patterns. A natural way to arrange stones is in rectangles *if you can*. I use this with 3-5 year olds and very quickly they are exploring and finding factorizations and identifying primes.

I am a *huge fan* of proper and consistent use of terminology. But I think there are contexts like this where it would be a huge mistake to offer the terminology without the need for it or until it is useful to support expanding understanding.

Is this an example of Andrew's point, though? Of course it's a good idea to get a sense of a concept before introducing terminology for it, but the point of learning the terminology is that it then becomes easier to talk about the concept.

Maybe not! I just think that there is a lot of learning that can happen before we introduce technical terminology.