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I blame the Normans (which is quite rightly the first point on your list)

Makes the Blair-Brown Era look really crucial. It'd also be good to see (1) the line for our oil & gas production/net exports, and (2) one for the relative overvaluation of our currency. An awful lot of our deindustrialisation was driven by (2), and (1) made the consensus opinion that it was fine.

Just add data centers

Coal & the English class system are part of it. The North had the coal, so it got wealthy mill towns, which were scorned as dirty & uncouth by the educated, sophisticated south. After 200 years of prosperity the towns were ruined by foreign competition. We southerners didn't care. We still don't.

It is the Scotland comparison which is particularly interesting (says a Scot). What happens if you take out North Sea oil?

You're a very brave man :-). The one thing that blows my mind is that (North) Yorkshire was an absolute centre of European Catholicism prior to the Reformation. To me, while there's obviously lots of inputs, the industrial decline dates back to the 70's & yes subsequent government responses to it.

No!

And this just question begs!

I used to do project estimates for large chemical factories on a global basis. When it came to mechanical construction productivity two centres in Europe were head and shoulders above the others. The Basque country of Spain and North East England. The NE has been badly let down.

A related article here, paywalled: “A little-known law states that neither Birmingham nor Manchester are big enough [to be the UK’s second city]”: manchestermill.co.uk/britain-does... Makes the case for more government interference in the case of Brum (The Distribution of Industry Act in 1945).

I’d like to explore the way that successful organisations & businesses that originate from North England are fitter & evolve faster because they have to be better. This is the opportunity that we have - even the smallest public investment in North England will over perform if placed correctly

Absolutely brilliant. Usually when people talk about things like this, they start in the 20th century, so it's good to have the earlier context represented here

Fascinating stuff Tom

2. And the fact that our only international flight hub is located in the south east! See the dabate on expanding heathrow, whilst the idiocy of 10,000s of northerners traveling hundreds of miles to fly abroad, continues without any debate!

Lack of investment in physical infrastructure e.g. transport links, and human infrastructure, Universities, always seemed the obvious reason why the North struggles. If you build it, they will come. We didn't, so they didn't.

Totally agree- but most of the finance from both slavery and in particular plundering empire did end up down south- including into Oxford and Cambridge.

Good read, but now I have back my residual historical anger at the North literally inventing railways for the world (whether you argue Darlo or Manc) only to be told 200 years later they aren't allowed any by the powers in the South

Sure but none of those are remotely comparable in scale to London and the southeast.

Sure that's what happens now, if you want to move jobs (in a specialised industry) in the North you'll probably have to relocate. In London you can probably just get on a different tube line.

It could but for London's enormous gravity in services (network effects, money, politics, prejudice......) a huge obstacle, almost impossible to overcome. When they were rich, the industrial North and Midlands were so because they had a separate economic purpose.

Just look at the 100-word sub titles of plays from the time for ref: eg “Or An Exploration Of Our Character, If Such A Mighty Task Is Even Permissible, And The ..” etc. Or look at the “We’re Sorry To Be Rude” tone of the US Declaration of Independence 100 yrs later. www.archives.gov/founding-doc...

Thanks. I did wonder that a bit reading it for the first time (there's a copy in or around Durham Cathedral somewhere) and asked and was told much the same, though that this petition was particularly grovelling.

Have you brought this to Tyler's attention? He should have a conversation with you

I reckon you’d really appreciate this podcast episode on the back of your piece bsky.app/profile/hann...

Exactly. The policy elite referred to is nowadays more likely to originate near London as access to the useful Internships and entry level jobs depends on access to cheap or parental accommodation.

Absolutely this - a substantial issue across the nations. It's perhaps most commonly cited in 'holiday' areas, and their fringe retirement zones (large parts of S and W Wales, pretty much all of SW England W of Bristol), but the problems noted there are symptomatic of a much wider set of challenges.

I reflected that that comment was likely obvious but it comes from being impressed by how much useful information — in data analysis — comes out of posts that the writers often describe as “here’s something quick” or “here’s a fix for something that bothered me” when quick-and-dirty is good enough

FWIW as someone closely involved in managing the aftermath of the decision, AZ moved because a) the new CEx wanted to make a point to international investors who know of Cambridge’s reputation but have no idea where Alderley Edge is b) AZ had been moving to an open innovation model for some time ..

Then may I suggest “It’s interesting that you don’t make a full point on the private sector” or “really interesting article “what are you views on the role of the public sector”

Is there an implementable proposal sitting anywhere for moving Parliament to Manchester?

I’ve only skimmed but found some interesting ideas Needs a good read when I’ve more time 📌 Well worth an hour of any one’s time, I’d say

Great set of insights, and makes so much sense from a Cumbrian perspective, close to the Scottish border where the universities were embedded.

Most people I want to read are here now so I seldom go to Twitter. I enjoy reading your stuff so good it’s here too.

If you contrast that with development of Greater London and the South over a longer period you have a more densely populated area... That has knock-on effects for agglomeration and transport infrastructure, I think - alongside long-term social legacies of industrialisation/deindustrialisation.

I’ve seen it argued that HS2 (which I realise is a different kind of mobility) would have been bad for the North because it would enable people to leave it for London more easily, and always wanted to ask whether we should therefore boost the North by making the WCML and M6 worse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-4752... This graph mirrors my experience and that of many of my friends.

My hunch is that more geographic movement enables positive adaptation and innovation in all locations. But more importantly, please can you write a book about all this? I can offer support on the misery that book writing involves if helpful.

Oh weird. Given how incredibly low geographic mobility is in UK.

Interesting points with which I don't much agree, but stimulating for discussion. Leave X, come and discuss here with actual people.

It suggests politicians & investors are not looking at market benefits. Could be one of the reasons why uk dosent grow productivity.

No idea what you mean

Thanks. Interesting, will read.

You could try Wikipedia?

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There’s a huge poverty correlation of coalfields mapping. Which in reality should be the wealthiest areas given their natural assets. Wallsend coal (where I’m from) helped give birth to the Champagne industry, ironic kick in the teeth, given that Healthy life expectancy inequality here is 15.7 years

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I had no idea about the restrictions on northern universities. This is a really interesting read. And I've banged on about shifting Parliament to Manchester* for years. Long overdue. *Or similar.

As a Scottish Yorkshire woman (with an Irish mother) can only agree re the North being more Irish and Scottish!

As a northern economist, I mostly agree, but I don't think we should be downplaying the central role of human capital flows from north to south. And in attributing blame, please add in John Prescott and his role in the botched North East England devolution referendum.

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Relocating the government, all of it, would definitely do the trick 🙂

Where the north is?

Not core to the discussion, but using "Bath" as the marker of Southerness does depend on whether it's what you fill with water or live there. I'm definitely team short a but still pronounce the placename with a long a 🙂

Cornwall being in the North makes far too much sense

Also graphs of, 5/ Just how centralised the UK is politically. 6/ Just how much of a drain on public finances North England now is.

Appreciate your linguistic explanations! Any thoughts about the intrusive 'r'? Why do we hear eg Annar Anderson in the South?

Why is the East Midlands the most neglected?

What are your thoughts on opportunities for fulfilling a shift in infrastructure, R&D, tax&spend to eg Gtr Lincs mayor / Combined Authority? £24M/ year funding for 1.1million pop is £22/person/year. Can’t see any great changes with that, or am I missing something?

Then there's this; Tom Whipple, in the Times (£), 24/10/24; "The more attractive children were more likely to become economically successful and so.. more likely to live in the more economically successful places... “Southeast England attracts the good-looking,” he says, “and repels the bad looking"

To what extent did EEC/EC/EU membership have an impact? Liverpool was once a mighty port but declined as trade focus switched from globe/USA to continental Europe.

Fascinating read. I wrote last year that moving the capital might be a way to rebalance the north-south divide www.edrc.ac.uk/news-blog/it...

Scrub that and extend it into the early 15th century...

Inequality (regional and wealth) is always the major problem that the rich (especially those who live in the south east) won’t ever acknowledge. I hated Thatcher when living down south, and now still hate her while living oop north 🤨

Hard to disagree with this thesis: the comparison with Scotland is particularly stark: largely autonomous political history, ancient universities (twice as many as England until the 19th century), separate legal system etc

Regarding your lumping of the Midlands with the North, don't Midlanders resent that in part because they had a very successful new industry in the interwar era (car manufacture) when the other major new industries of that time (aviation and electronics) were overwhelmingly Southern?