Post

I kinda suspect American voters are likely dumber than average in democracies because our system is so complicated and nonsensical

brent 🌹🗽@therealbrent.bsky.social

Main takeaway from the NYT Iowa focus group is that none of these voters really know what’s going on and they barely know anything about the candidates running in either statewide election lmao

like table stakes to be able to even understand what is going on is being aware of the Senate filibuster, a thing that is so deranged that it wouldn't even occur to someone to design it on purpose and is nowhere in the Constitution

whereas in a parliamentary system, the average dope who hates thinking about political crap can just pull the lever for the party that sounds nice. lot of them even have convenient labels. "ah yes, the Labor Party, that's probably for workers." not always accurate ofc but it's better

oh my god ballot initiatives too. "yes, let's require ordinary voters parse this highly complex legalese likely written to be intentionally dishonest." crazy system bsky.app/profile/benf...

Ben@benfields.net

as a dual national that votes in two places I think there's something to this. UK elections are considered big and complicated when you have to vote for 3 things in one ballot. My recent California ballot had a couple dozen roles and another 10 propositions. This is too much.

24 reposts342 likes

Ah unfortunately the exact wording on that particular initiative was defective because of reasons, so it's not effective. Also California's insane property tax lock-in

Referendums are widespread (remember Brexit?) if not as common as in the U.S. Given that stuff like the filibuster, the electoral college and the conservative legal movement functionally only prevent the Democrats from acting, it’s hard not to view the opacity as hand-in-hand with Dem Party kayfabe.

also formal party offices! as part of a system that basically doesn't even exist!! bsky.app/profile/ryan...

ryan cooper@ryanlcooper.com

I just voted in the PA primary and there was a spot for “Democratic Committeeman.” the fact that I hadn’t the slightest clue what that even is was luckily counterbalanced by the fact that nobody had gotten listed on the ballot

I mean, as part of a party primary, I think that's fine. Democratic voters get to vote for party leadership? What's wrong w that? That's just economy of resources, putting it on the party ballot at the same time as elections for government officials. The real scandal is that there were no nominees!

The UK has had a grand total of 3 nationwide referenda ever, two on the EU (or the EC as it was in the first one in the 70s) and one on changing the voting system. You can argue they're not a good idea in a parliamentary system at all.

We in the US simultaneously suffer from both too little & too much democracy at the same time. He have gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement/suppression, but also, way too many elected offices that should either be completely outside the political system, or should be tied to the executive.

And then there are all the different elections: presidential elections, but also midterm elections, but also (in many places) off-year elections, & special elections, & then nearly all of those also have primary elections before the general elections, plus ballot initiatives. We need consolidation.

For me it's always the local/superior court judges on the ballots. Like no one who's not an active lawyer knows who the fuck these people are. I've never thought about how much responsibility American citizens are given to put people in power and make laws compared to citizens of other countries.

This is absolutely nothing. In Arizona my ballot was about 2 feet long double sided. I voted for governor, house, state house, school district, two city props, about 10 state props, a county prop, bullshit like constable and mine inspector, and about 30 different judges.

In CA they're required for lots of business as usual tax policy and bonds, a hold over from when the Republicans were radicalizing themselves in the last couple decades of their hold on state power (up to Pete Wilson's governorship in the 90s) and a key reason why state government here is broken

When I lived in California you would get a book explaining all of the referendums And the funny thing was they all said they would be paid for with a bond measure Don't use the T-word! LOL

I remember when Florida passed an amendment mandating high speed with no provision for paying for it Governor Jeb Bush said it'd be way too expensive Around the same time the President (his brother) proclaimed "We're going to Mars" What?

You don't think that's the average mouth breather should be deciding what percentage of medical nonprofits are required to spend on "services" or what types of non income assets should localities be able to tax? Living in CA has disabused me of any notion that direct democracy is a good idea.

it's not even direct democracy! like if we had sortition or something to pick the members of the legislature that would be one thing, but this is just a system even more vulnerable to elite manipulation than lobbying

Yeah the prop system is just such a nutty way to run the 5th largest economy in the world. At the leg level CA reps are *way* too low, it's like 120 ppl assembly and Senate combined! We don't need to be NH (403 just assemblymen lol) but it should be doubled.

Gosh, democracy and voting are difficult. If only someone else would make all these decisions without deferring to the people! Like, why should we let voters interfere with what officials want?

State and local are a nightmare too. In some years I'm responsible for the election of a half dozen or more judges, local school board, and a huge array of local positions. I'm a hyper engaged voter but even I don't have that kind of time