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I mean NeoLibs got us where we are in many ways but they'll still punch Nazis with me. And I identify as a Social Liberal/Social Democrat (Center-Left).

My brain won't hold the distinction. It's too new to me and we're nearly 5 months into every single day coming with horrible information. New differences between synonyms are a bridge too far, it seems.

You see, Matt Yglesias says he is a liberal, and he claims to speak for the majority of American liberals. The leftist position is that pseudo-Machiavellian pricks like him are actually correct, and they do speak for the majority of liberals. But also all the conservatives are secretly leftist.

Reactionary centerists are those that might not like Trump (because of stylistic reasons, perhaps), but before anything else want peace and quiet so they can enjoy their money, and are willing to put up with dictatorship if it doesn't affect them.

I think that is right! I also think it is important when people come around to certain further-left viewpoints that have been shown to be correct, that we (including myself here!) think about what we were not seeing, and who we were not listening to.

(ie how actual Palestinians in Palestine wanted Kamala to win over trump but that's not what reached THEIR algorithms so instead they sat out when it would've been better to keep protesting but also doing everything to make sure trump didn't win instead of just posting on social media)

Also season 1 of the podcast alphabet boys is about that scumbag and the protestors he fucked over. Tbf I'm being harsh about the kids he fucked over for profit. They were victims of a set-up and a lot of us would have made those mistakes at their age but still smdh.

This 62 year old white lady used to identify as a Moderate Republican. 5th generation. We believed in small, efficient government, that had no right messing in personal lives. We believed in free speach and the rule of law. Took decades, but mean, stupid, crazy, incompetent fascists stole the GOP.

I'd love to see a poll just to shut them the fuck up for once

Liberals are also the problem

It’s the reverse : many people blame the Left for Kamala Harris’ loss even though most of the Left did vote for her. The choice was a choice like your money or your life. It’s not a choice. You can not blame people for not voting for the genocide of their families Harris was perpetrating.

Well, that settles it. I’m whatever you are.

Kristol has always been a conservative liberal. He worked for Moynihan. He has no problem calling liberal democracy liberal democracy and defending it unequivocally.

Sorry, missed a few comments, but my view is “whatever it takes.” I have no ill will at all towards leftists and think we are all on the same side here. Our coalition has to be broad and we have to do whatever it takes to beat MAGA

That's where the contention lies. I swear to ride into battle with Tom Nichols and Hillary Clinton. Do y'all swear to ride into battle with the kids throwing molotov cocktails at ICE vehicles? That's what happened at Maidan. Complete societal mobilization.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

It's been an insult since the 90s.

I had never heard any other label for non-conservative politics until several years after I left my conservative ideals behind. I called myself a liberal because it was the only word I knew for “not a conservative.”

i think that getting americans to use the word "liberal" differently is so far down the list of our priorities right now that it's basically invisible

That is an insane leap lol

Absolutely correct. At the last sign wave in our rural (red) town, I made some comment to a young woman next to me about her stickers about being a Dem and she said “I’m far far left of the democratic party, but fuck it - I’m a Dem now”

and that's teaching-work the orgs above them don't have to be doing. people learn best from those only a few steps ahead of them, who can still remember the pitfalls.

Yeah, I have a bunch of relatives (all technically Boomers!) going to the protests this weekend and I’m pretty sure most of them have no idea about the leftist/liberal divide.

Or at least primaries...

Whataboutism

agreed, I think tomorrow’s No Kings events will be refreshingly normie; there’s just a lot of desire for the fight right now (even if Capitol Hill lags the people in this regard)

The people with whom I've attended protests have all been liberal and had no problems with the Democratic Party leadership.

Schumer sure, but they probably like their local Congressperson and state representative.

I don’t hate the Dem leadership yet but I’m getting there. What really bothers me is that the centrists who are even more not there yet, that I know, are black women. And they’ve been carrying the rest of us for too long to be criticized by anyone.

Many of the small town/small city protests and sign waves are organized by the local Dem office. And most participants are the “regulars” from the gatherings of these offices. These groups look pretty different from Big City Dem offices!

We're in an existential fight against fascism. We need all the allies we can get our hands on. The infighting is beyond stupid, it's self destructive

The complainers are entitled to better service.

The factionalism is rank bullshit, divorced not only from the reality on the ground (the protesters span demography and politics) but also history. This will not and cannot be won by liberals, or leftists, or whatever Bill Kristol is today. It'll be won by all of them in tandem, and nothing else.

I’ve never appreciated the cooler than thou approach to activism. We all start where we are. People who feel an urge to join after you did should not be mocked - they should be welcomed and assisted. To do otherwise continues domination/supremacy patterns.

So many people I spoke to at protests I’ve attended have stated that they were lifelong Republicans. Others were Independents, voting for candidates based on issues. All are outraged.

Meanwhile I've been arguing about which side should shoot first. (I think it should be the Nazis, in case you were wondering.)

🙋 Proud lib (some might even say shitlib) reporting for duty. I’ve gone to my fair share of anti-Trump protests in both terms.

It me

No, that had everyone. I don't understand why the 1st and 2nd impeachments didn't have a huge groundswell like that.

The protest movement is a lot bigger and a lot different than it was back then per @chenoweth.bsky.social

I am once again begging some people to learn that the prefix "some" exists, and can be used to complain about the specific subgroup of people you want to complain about, without insulting the wider group of people who you don't really have any issues with.

Being a centrist right now is truly mad. Those are people who just want to feel superior to both sides (because they are actually not that bright or well informed).

Also, most people have no idea what "liberal" means beyond "not conservative". Labels are rarely accurate and a lot of "centrists" and "liberals" actually hold properly leftist values. 🤔

Thank you.

The problem is "neoliberal" which includes both warmongering, centrist, status-quo idiots in the Democratic Party, and warmongering, right-wing, status-quo idiots in the Republican Party, all of whom are fundamentally against any change. It's not puzzling why leftists want to distance themselves.

and the word brunch

Way too many Democratic Party elites are cowards. They are not representative of people in the US who are liberals.

This!!!! Sure, Phil Ochs made fun of liberals from the left, and Rush Limbaugh did so from the right, and at some point “progressive” took over, but when I was growing up, it was just the left side of the line from conservative.

This. My non-online friends would never understand this distinction. I don't know that I could explain the distinction.

My 70+ year old parents are marching this weekend. They've got fairly left views(Bernie folk) but call themselves liberal democrats. I would literally fight someone if they had a problem with that. My hippie-ass dad has been doing this longer than anyone angry-posting about people like them.

in Germany I'd be SPD or even further left... here in the US, I've mostly just said I'm a liberal.

It's a simple question: who do you hate more, Trump or the Libs? If it's Trump, 95% of the people who agree with you are self-identified liberals. If it's the Libs, basically 100% of the people who agree with you are MAGA. Thats where the battle lines have been drawn.

This is an existential crisis, and that is why it is vitally important that I spend all of my time yelling at the people who I agree with on 97% of issues

The right wing is all of those “loyal and dangerous” memes of Cillian Murphy and Tom Hardy smoking a cigarette and giving the camera side eye

The fascist forces have been very adept in exploiting distinctions developed through academic knowledge and expertise to fracture their opposing parties/movements.

Clear as day. Same folks who invented the name Genocide Joe to concern troll libs. I have not met a liberal who supports genocide being carried out by Bibi’s right wing fascist regime.

well, younger are at this point subsumed for the most part in "too online"

I'll also admit that I yell at "leftists" a lot on here. Mainly because they don't understand optics and incremental change.

It's crazy. And absolutely don't suggest that Oct 7th was bad. Or you'll be on the "list".

Leftists have been using Liberal as a pejorative for a long time. Phil Ochs wrote a song about it in 66.

I am glad you mentioned academics because if you read anyone who is an anarchist/commie (or even MLK) and they have a few choice words for 'liberals'

Liberals are leftists who are willing to do the work to achieve progressive goals.

<taps sign>

True, but we don’t GAF and have nazis to worry about. No bandwidth for filling out the bubble exam on leftism. 🙃

The actual number of socialists in the US is tiny and they are so wrapped up in like their one college class of Marx they're completely and utterly impotent. I've met maybe a hundred and the 2 who actually were making change ran as liberals.