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Public shame for public individuals. The problem is everyone is a public individual. Being shamed in today's connected world is a unique form of torture. The real problem is those that are justly shamed are ignorant they are pieces of shit and are incapable of feeling shame. Exile might work.

I fully agree, just unsure how we can make these people actually feel it. Usually shame comes from judgement by one's own peers, these guys don't seem to believe they have any peers.

The problem isn't shame, it's that you can opt out of broader society and get all your socialization needs met in your group chat with only people who will talk you up no matter what. Imagine how much worse it's gonna get when everybody has group chats full of AIs! Fun times

Shame doesn’t work on malignant narcissists. Maybe you need psychiatric evaluations before someone runs for office?

I’m not sure it’ll work when the person being shamed will likely have plenty of vocal support for doing the shameful thing. Another aspect of society sorting into ideological bubbles that don’t share values or facts.

I know. It's amazing people do not feel shame for fucking children, or watching and cheering...or watching them be tortured.

it's pretty easy to not be a dick to strangers, and freely admitting when you're wrong is a muscle that a lot of people have let atrophy

A very long time ago, I was researching the effectiveness of various discipline techniques used by parents with their children. I was rather appalled (as a Catholic) to discover that guilt and shame were most likely to have long-term effects for changing a child’s behavior.

honesty & kindness are easier to agree on than education. our K12 education curricula has been politically slanted all along, in large part due to appealing to southern states' whitewashing US history & teaching dumbed down science w/o any labs, research, experiments.

A. See Musk, Twitter; trump, MAGA.

Not shame. Just a simple "if you abuse your power, we don't give you another position of power."

I so want all the MAGA loud mouth racists, misogynists, homophobes, transphobes, Nazis, etc., etc., to crawl back under their rocks!!

Jail works as well, in place of shame

Shame is for the poors.

It’s especially essential in a free speech society

Exactly what Republicans have been fighting against for over fifty years. The end of people like Nixon and McCarthy is something highly inconvenient to their style.

Trump being ____ apart by a crowd would heal us a liitle

One of the reason I was hoping Trump would lose in ‘24 and hopefully go away. We need shame for a huge swath of assholes.

Why cap it? Exile is an idea i love. Someone does something kinda bad, they should feel internal shame reinforced by external social disgust at the behavior. Really bad, it rises to ostracization and shunning. Trump bad, it becomes formal exile.

Call me if someone puts mortal terror back on the table

"Shamelessness was never a super power" Jim Carrey

The hate click is going to go down in history as being the single most socially corrosive invention of all time.

I mean, there must be something truly broken in people who asshole this hard.

Aristides the Just was probably ostracized because he opposed Themistocles' plan to build a fleet. ostracism was a political institution

Virtue signaling is good actually. It reinforces the way people are supposed to behave.

Oh, yeah, this is generally when I’m pedestrianing.

Pointing & laughing works.

Politically speaking, right now in the US and UK at least, the two terms are synonymous. It's gotten *far worse* since then; shame is a cost, and power without cost corrupts.

Never thought about it that way, but that explains me very well

Oriental Orthodox or Eastern Orthodox? The former broke away after the Council of Chalcedon and the latter after the Great Schism.

Unfortunately nobody really saw consequences for Magdalene laundries or residential schools or colonialism or church sexual abuse or lying about condoms causing AIDS or the deadly consequences of abortion bans or medical misogyny in general so Catholicism obviously won't cut it

the solution is just to argue with everyone who is wrong all the time i guess. im doing my part.

Gonna add to it: honor Trump has eviscerated honor in society

yes

I think maybe ostracism was a better system, like if you get enough of the public to agree we should be able to exile someone for 4 years if we can let them lead the world for that long

Preeeaaaaaachh!!!

Violence helped us take back Europe from the Nazis in the 1940s. Maybe it is what we need to take back America from the Nazis in the 2020s.

You can’t spell shame without me.

🫡 Same!

People like Vivek, trump, and all these others. They cannot know shame because shame demands a conscience, and a conscience demands a soul. They lost theirs long ago if ever they had one

The problem is that it really only works in person. I don't think we experience it the same way otherwise, and a lot of these people are insulated by people who would never shame them for anything.

As long as we have the ultra-rich I don't think we can. What the fuck do they care what the proles think?

also prison. If shame was coming with a proportionate side of prison, it could be a lot more effective.

Vivek obviously is incapable of it

It's not just that shame has been abandoned as a tool, but it's... It's been INTERNALIZED because it's been abandoned as a tool. People look at you like you have three hall monitor heads if you say "I don't shop there because that is a bad company that does bad things and pushes bad values."

Hear me out... the Purge... but only for people with American flags in or on their pickup trucks

#NZPol Time to demand higher standards for some of our highest paid public employees. Looking at the two men who are the loudest parts of NZFirst.

Aye, and bring back the pillory for the worst offenders.

Basically every criticism of "woke" and me too comes down to "how the fuck DARE YOU attempt to make me feel bad about my demonstrably awful ass behavior!"

Somebody is gonna learn you can become disabled at any time

Shame is contrary to the first amendment apparently

the maddening part is, it's even backed by people who don't necessarily *want* to be pieces of shit in public - they just think they should never face consequences on principle

*exemption for women who have had quite enough of that shit already thank you

Yes!