Post

POV: You're 16, believe being in advanced placement math class means you're a once in a generation genius, and have just discovered Reddit.

1K reposts11.4K likes

ALT Text for above: Tweet from Nate Silver. It reads: "Like how can you be a remotely competent historian without recognizing that major events in human history are shaped by high IQ, high-agency people who are bad and/or flawed and/or dangerous."

Imagine living in this world and believing that we're here because the bad people who get power are smart, and not mostly nepo-brain con men blinded by hubris and compliments from the people they pay to agree with them

Teenagers know everything. We all thought it at that age but most of us weren't in a position to do any harm or had adults around to gently redirect us. Reminds me of 'Lord of the Flies' with no adult supervision to moderate behaviours. Terrifying to watch.

Its also so easily disproven if one just looks at even basic history. I mean, Monarchies and all. Like, Bismarck probably was very smart and certainly "high agency", but Wilhelm II was very much not and defined history just as much by beeing an idiot born into power.

Some of the most famous historical figures are known to not be good people. Therefore, if I am not a good person, I should have a better chance of changing history. It's really a shame we don't teach these 'smart kids' more logic.

"how can you be a historian and not understand [justification for great man theory]?" how can one be a functioning adult and not understand that power lies in the choice of followers to follow more so than the leader themself who only pretends the power stems from them?

Great Man theory has thoroughly permeated pop history, and most people are not in touch with academic history at all. Many functioning adults learn history mostly from the History channel, authors like Ron Chernow, or YouTube/Tiktok. Silver clearly in shock that conventional wisdom is incorrect.

I'm 37 I got placed into the gifted kids class when I was 11 and I will order the rest of my life on this single thing having nothing else to show for it.

History is not just major events. Think of the highly intelligent, hard working, persevering, cautious people who have changed human life: Marie Curie, Louis Pasteur, Alexander Graham Bell, Francisca Okeke, you add who you want: there are so many more. Unshowy but so useful in everyday life.

Oh, you want to be a competent historian? You start by understanding that the people in positions of power and agency have always been of highly varying intellect, and that the most-likely qualifying trait to be one of them is wealth or proximity to power. Stupid people make history too

Yes! But, if you've heard of them and they were philosophers or scientists from the 1600s, the odds are that they were privileged to have the kind of time to do that. For every Einstein, there are probably dozens of equally intelligent people who never had access to education or time to pursue it.

A man who makes a whole career on creating models that don't actually predict anything is a bona fide genius in my book and welcome to walk into my discipline to show me how it's done.

Intellectual insecurity. All the best Nazis have it. All trumplicans have it. All assholes have it. But I repeat myself. Intellectual bigotry is a loser’s game. World changers have been creative. Anathema to tech bros who just bank and bank on other people’s ideas.

2/ That is because intelligence is multi-dimensional and excelling in one dimension, does not mean you can’t fail in another. And the thing is, its impossible to know which dimension you may need in the future

All over the world people with extraordinary gifts in one area or another are born daily. They are much less likely to make any observable contribution beyond the norm (which is sufficient) than a group of people working together and supporting each other in favourable conditions.

As someone who was in AP English and AP History, the AP Math kids were the worst. They had no idea what their weaknesses are or that they even have weaknesses because they didn't pay attention in their humanities classes, & schools blow smoke up their asses & call them geniuses constantly.

Just like how Konrad von Hötzendorf was a high IQ person who invaded Serbia, started WW1, failed at invading Serbia, then caused the destruction of the Austria-Hungary empire See also Enver Pasha who caused the destruction of the Ottoman Empire. Very smart

From a historical perspective, how have IQ’s been measured? Although IQ seems to mentioned a lot lately, and high IQ being mentioned more than ever, where does everyone get these IQ scores from? There is no standardized measurement of intelligence that takes into account culture & emotion

IQ has been demonstrably shown to be a nice re-enforcer of white supremacy, so endorsing it as viable reason to be-king some assholes fits perfectly here. That said, one Redditer's MAGA father was bragging about his 98 online IQ score sooooo....

A Math degree won’t improve your competence at Arithmetic. Cutting budget can shift or increase costs in other areas. For extra credit, how will Medicaid cuts affect your family? Show your work.

Put it this way. Where I live we have internationally renowned scientists, leading teaching hospital surgeons, prize winning authors, law firm partners, etc pottering around the supermarket and their vegetable gardens like everyone else (and often getting the plant science a bit wrong).

When I learned about bell curves, and where I fit in them as a kid, I was initially relieved to know why I didn't fit in. Then, with age, saddened at the rest of the implications of it. With no ego intended, it's a bummer to realize you'll be smarter than 95% of people you will ever meet.

This all boils down to “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. These silver spooners have been told their whole life they are special and elite and their private school reinforces that. Completely unearned and mostly unwarranted but it makes them feel powerful and ultimately dangerous.

I read an interesting book by Alexander Boxer called "A Scheme of Heaven: The History of Astrology and the Search for our Destiny in Data". Fascinating reading and by the end of it I came to realize that pollsters like Silver are modern court astrologers. Algorithm magic in both cases.

Sycophants flatter rich and powerful people pretending that they have high IQ, when they tend to have middling or below average one. And you don't need high IQ to be a Gavrilo Princip who puts history flowing into a new direction.

It seems like it takes only a few malevolent people to cause many of the world's problems out of lust for money or power. They are ready to destroy the planet for a few more bucks. But Trump is the most glaring counter-example that they are all high-IQ.

lol at "high IQ." Most historical figures are average or slightly above. Check The Banality of Evil. Most with high IQ are too dysfunctional and out of step with everyone else (says the guy with a 147 verbal IQ) but to be curious footnotes outside of their chosen spheres

It's funny because likely fascism could have been entirely avoided if not for two vastly incompetent men (luigi Cadorna and Vittorio Emanuele orlando)

Yes, because the IQ test was invented to show that Europeans were 'superior' to Africans; it's completely flawed, and doesn't actually measure intelligence. But eugenicists and white supremacists (same thing, basically) love it because they think it shows white people superior to 'other races.' 🙄

There are various categories under high IQ including. -3D visualization. -Language. -Math. The most important abilities include curiosity & ability to recognize strengths & weaknesses in yourself & others, to enable teamwork. Despots like Goebbels & Stalin always suppress curiosity & free speech.

Good example of teamwork: Unconscious camp counselor needed help. Blind kid sat in drivers seat of car controlling gas & brakes. Paraplegic kid sat in blind kid's lap, steered & told blind kid when to step on gas or brakes. Together, they drove camp counselor to get help.

Hope that type of masturbation makes you feel better Nate . . . makes up for your sad teenage years? Facts are, “IQ” is but one dubious type of “intelligence.” Spatial and other forms of intelligence have their place too.

It's like...Nate, you're looking at the exact wrong data, foolishly choosing the weakest data to base your beliefs upon. IQ is bullshit and everyone knows it. If you think high IQ determines jack or shit, you're ignorant. It's the lack of empathy and compassion, Nate; that's the connection.

I dont know the context but on its own,Nate has a point there. Influential brilliance is often used for the worse and it's important to recognize that.

From everything I have studied, put together and read, the root commonality among "horrible historical people" is their willingness to crawl well beneath contempt, morality, truth, facts, democracy, decency or whatever is adjacent to their goals. That doesn't take an IQ it takes a lack of soul.

They hate smart people. Look at the awful on the right. Measure their degree of hate for teachers, college education and journalists, it coincides with their hate if other people and democracy not brains.

History, in fact, is most shaped by nonhuman agency like rainfall, soil quality, earthquakes, plagues, ice ages, meteor strikes, volcanic eruptions. Battles were won based on which army got struck worse by dysentery, typhus or both. And by energy sources & technology - hello fossil fuels.

like, a smart society shouldn’t let shitheads steer the course of history to terrible things. humans haven’t been great at that to date, who gives a fuck if it has been the case in the past

It's probably helpful to note that major events in human history are also shaped by awful sociopaths whose sole qualification to be involved was their wealth or inherited power If you're smart, bully for you. That doesn't make up for being an asshole though

The ironic thing here is that most maga supporters rail against the elitist line of thought - yet with Musk's cronies, they seem to enjoy it. Perhaps they haven't really realized they just jumped loyalties from one elitist group to another?

Prefer George Eliot's POV:

Môr Leidr@bartiddu.bsky.social

A quote for our times “..for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs. George Eliot. Middlemarch