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I am trying to be patient because I 100% get that people are terrified but I am really struggling with all this knee-jerk public defeatism from other liberals and leftists right now

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look i am also VERY prone to exceedingly bleak feelings and sentiments but i try to keep them to myself or to a small circle of friends because i do believe it is vital to eventual victory in long wars to try to keep each other’s spirits up

I think it's fine to acknowledge that the current outlook is not optimal, but we're not dead yet and maybe this is just the ADHD kicking into high gear, but now is not the time for self-defeating alarmist panic. Now is when we really need clear heads to assess what's going on and start making plans

Surviving is all we really can do for so much of what is going to happen, like these tariffs. America voted for it, and we're going to get it. We have to focus on next steps because we will survive. 2026 elections aren't so far away.

My personal stance is one of an existential optimist. I see the data, I can see where things might be headed, I know that humans tend not to think strategically over the long term. But giving up on hope is a bridge too far, even with what I know.

This got you followed. I’m in agreement. In my own experience I can’t find solutions if I let my head be loudly full of woe is me. I have to acknowledge that, but then pull myself enough together to hope incoming ideas might work or they won’t come to me.

Faine Greenwood@faineg.com

Most every time I post about politics nowadays, I get a number of replies from people saying stuff along the lines of “we’re all doomed and you’re a naive idiot if you aren’t cowering in a hole waiting for death.” Even if you feel utterly doomed, why are you trying to spread it to others?

At the same time, maybe they don’t want to feel upbeat with you. Just a thought. As for why people are defeatist, it’s because they know the reality. All the good feeling and upbeat thoughts will do nothing. There is nothing stopping them, not even Congress or SCOTUS.

maybe they’re not trying to force despondency on others; maybe they are expressing a valid response to the endless, repeating trauma that the magaverse inflicts on us and they (me) are looking for solidarity.

idk how folks are reacting to a second time that we already know is going to be worse than the first and are spending their energy just getting people freaked out and burned out. like, we know it’s gunna be super bad. what are we doing about it? nothing? cmon. focus up.

Continuing to live, to love, and to do what we can for those we can is the strongest defiance. Living is winning, and we know they'll eat their own if they can't devour us.

Giving in means you've let them conquer your spirit, which they want even more than conquering our bodies and lives. Besides, if it's so bleak, why not go one more day? Try to help one more person? What's the cost of rolling the dice one more time, if you already feel consigned to your fate?

And so we give ourselves to each other. Each day, for one more day, we march alongside each other. Fearful? Yes. Uncertain, to be sure. But every day will bring the dawn of another, and one day, we will be somewhere other.

I don't disagree with the core of what you're saying, that it's important not to discourage people and cause them to check out. But this also needs to be a moment of reflection where a certain segment of Democrats should be reevaluating the "we know best" mindset of the last 30 years.

I think it’s all about perspective. We all have a different perspective of life. What’s important is to value how another human perceives their perspective and allow them the freedom to have that view with out judgement. We may not agree but we don’t need to judge either.

Sure, but this is any analysis, not judgment, right? There is a significant segment of Democrats who were sure Biden, not Bernie, was the future of the Democratic party. Yet it must be clear now that his victory was only a rejection of the pandemic under Trump and not a cry for more neoliberalism.

The severity of the backlash to the Bernie movement, the lack of concern for the loss of support among Latino and black voters (mainly men), and most recently, the lack of concern the party refused to hold a real primary were all signs the party was in major trouble. Democrats must think this over.

The way I look at it, people look for different things from social media. For some, it's rallying the troops; for others, it's being down, expressing that sentiment and feeling seen. I value that if it's genuine, if it helps people cope.

It's not about being cheery, of course. It's about being human/humane, courageous & generous. Bill Stringfellow wasn't a very cheery guy, but he has a bunch to say to us (a thread from a month ago): bsky.app/profile/drew...

Drew Kadel@drewkadel.bsky.social

The stakes of this election are incredibly high. Yet fear of the future is debilitating, not empowering. I want to encourage everyone to continue to live humanly, no matter the outcome. I'll share some thoughts from this book by my favorite activist from the 1960s. wipfandstock.com/978159244874...

Long before he entered politics, Trump the “businessman” literally said he believes that when people become depressed, when they give up, it creates opportunity for him to win. Like a true authoritarian, he wants people to surrendering.

I feel like after that election there was a grace period in which people could in all decency go nuts venting their rage and grief in whatever form that took. We're coming up on four weeks since the election. If you're still venting trauma, you're getting a mute or a block.

For me, the issue is where to focus. It might seem defeatist to some, but I’m clearly seeing that efforts to work through the Democratic Party are wasted. They led us here and are handing us over. IMO, all efforts should be focused on building something new. A tall order.

We need to remember the Swiss cheese defense! Yes, lots of things are fucked, and there are no magic wands. But if everyone does everything we can, even though our individual actions won't change anything on their own, our combined actions might!

Yes to this as a post-Jan 20 strategy. But as a pre-Jan 20 strategy, 10s of millions in the streets demanding Biden take this national emergency seriously and stop Trumpofascism before it happens seems better. He has the magic wand... bsky.app/profile/nmwi...

Dr Nick@nmwilkinson.eurosky.social

And upon this stage this pure excruciating allegory of lib acquiescence: The corrupted Supreme Court hands the ailing President the sword he needs to save democracy and the Republic. But in his weakness and denial, he refuses to use it, handing it instead to the demented and vengeful Cheeto Benito.

For some reason, I am reminded of a quote by Schopenhauer: Truth is no harlot who throws her arms around him who desires her. Rather, she is so coy a beauty, that the man who sacrifices everything to her is still not assured of her favors.

It's not defeatism to be realistic. No, we don't give up and we keep on fighting the good fight. But it doesn't help to ignore the fact that Trump has always operated as if the law doesn't apply to him and history has proven him right on that, to this country's everlasting shame.

Some of us may just be going through a process that looks like sitting with grief, wallowing in it a little, and writing lots of mediocre poetry before we’re ready to get back out there. We’re just strengthening our reserves.

I have compassion for the Left. Liberals pilfer their beliefs when politically amenable and abandon the causes at the slightest inconvenience. I’ve more ire for liberals—perpetually rolling over to show their fluffy bellies in submission of norms to support a democracy that no longer exists.

We're not defeatist, we just don't want advice from party leaders that somehow managed to outraise a rich candidate and still lose. They countered the issues pushing voters to the right - immigration and inflation - by saying, i effect, these weren't real problems. We need new thinking...

It became trendy to feign cynicism to look cool in left-wing spaces. These folks never quite understood or believed what they were saying, though. So now they're all freaked out about things they pretended to know while those of us who took it seriously are relieved it's not as bad as we expected.

Some folks were just parroting "everything sucks, doom!" without understanding it, and now that a bad thing has happened, they're parroting harder. If they'd taken it seriously, they'd have researched fascist takeovers more, and be _relieved_ right now that Trump's botching his attempt.

Many those of us who were really scared and made plans for how to survive or escape are feeling relieved right now because he didn't achieve the power he needed to do those things. The hashtag resistance crew apparently never really believed he was a fascist before now and didn't do the research.

Yeah especially the "a lot of people DIDN'T survive last time" shit. I am well aware, I also lost people. But if I give up all hope I might as well pull the plug now. I have to believe things can get better.

I think people are just tired and don’t have a clear route of action to put their energy into at the moment. For better or worse (likely both), this will probably clear up as soon as Trump is in office and takes any action that can be responded to.

It’s also the source of the phenomenon of anxious speculation becoming the dominant form of commentary on the coming Trump presidency. We all expect a bunch of bad things to happen. We cannot know what, when, how bad they are, or for whom. A we can do is guess in horror.

And personally, working an unpredictably stressful job, I’m inclined to suggest that folks just watch & wait, alertly attentive to what happens (not just what MIGHT happen). But I’m aware that this isn’t very helpful to people who need to feel through their anxiety and find their own ways to cope.

Today I went for my first walk since I got sidelined in June with bad health setbacks. I walked for 30 minutes, and tomorrow I’m doing it again. I’m hella pissed at everything and everyone rn, but I need to channel it into being productive. I’m going to need to be in good shape for the 💩 show comin.

It isn't "knee-jerk public defeatism." It's a genuine expression of longing for leaders to organize and provide a way for people to respond productively The Left & Center-Left have been left rudderless while The Right has been organized for this moment for years. People feel helpless...and they are

Defiance is 100% what Republicans want out of this. Republicans have nothing but a collection of fast failures and from the hip snipers. A big distraction that they can scapegoat everything on is exactly the fight they need to escape their responsibilities

Totally agree. I also see a lot of circular firing squad on here. I think we'd do better to make common cause with all those who don't enjoy fascism.

Same. Personally, I don't think most of what Trump claimed that he was going to do is going to happen. He only wanted back in the White House for the sake of his ego, to save himself from all these prosecutions, and to enrich himself one last time.

There is a danger in this as well, though. An implied silencing of the distressed perhaps. I wonder if a better question might be to consider how we respond to feelings of despair or helplessness in ourselves and others. True power comes from hearing such feelings and responding with compassion.

It’s unproductive and our mood matters. Hope will lead to action and make things better and/or less bad. Doom leads to inaction and maximum permanent pain.

I even look at it and reminds me of a line in two of Cory Doctorow's books 'This is not a fight to win, this is a fight to fight' The way I read it and internalise it is that no matter what the odds are you have to keep fighting. Admit that is difficult if you want but keep fighting

First, people have survived much worse. Second, what ever horrible decisions are being made will get exposed and rejected. Third, don’t let what’s happened influence you to treat anybody with anything but grace.

Same, and it's really embarrassing when you know how hard and long people around the world (including here in the US) have fought for their freedoms and their rights, only to see a bunch of privileged Americans throw in the towel as soon as things got hard for us.

My DSA chapter's last general meeting had maybe two hundred people in it. We had a new member orientation with 80 people on the zoom call. We had victories in local elections! Not everyone is defeated, many are working hard to change the world and keep our neighbors safe. We can win!

My mom said to me earlier “we’re doomed.” Really upset me tbh. Like I’m the one with 50 years left to live. I’m not just going to “give up on” my own freedom for my entire adult life.

Mom's scared and didn't express it in the most helpful way and your anger is healthy. We're going to fight and we'll win. Let mom know that because of people like you we're NOT doomed and there is a place for her in the fight. She'll appreciate it. GL.

I'm not defeated. I'm waiting for them to foul up spectacularly and cause their followers to turn on them. Meanwhile, I'm shopping locally at mom/pop stores and cooperatives. Supporting my LGBTQ artist friends by buying their art. Letting other libs know they aren't alone.

I had been in a deep depression ever since the election, but finding Bluesky is helping me pull out of it. It’s demoralizing to watch people you thought were good and decent selling out every principle you hold dear. I think Bluesky will play a huge role in rebuilding our democracy.

People just don’t know what to do. I don’t think this is representative of shit. Once he’s in office there’s gonna be a chorus of people letting everyone know exactly what Trump did and is doing to harm them. Even if congress is chickenshit. No one will be able to spit out a coherent tariff defense.

Anyone who’s read project 2025 & calls for baking bread & chill for a nerve tonic hasn’t read project 2025. Rational people who have read it will need; wine making, bread baking, meditation, humor, volunteering, exercise, art therapy, passports, community organizing, seed saving, revolution & chill

I feel a kind of optimism, like we can change a lot in the next few years just as long as we are also willing to beef up our support for already marginalized communities . So much of the system is broken or inadequate it needs something new. We need to start actually building a real third party now.

Yes. Time to get to work. We have rights to protect and elections to win! I think we should start by donating to the ACLU and /or the Democratic Party. Also find your Democratic County Committee and go to their meetings. Get involved so we can take our country back!

.. need to drop the “woke”b/s and read up on LBJ..he was a big prick ( literally) and the strongest Dem we’ve had since FDR..”when they go low we need to go lower..” I think that’s a paraphrase from a former First Lady..

I'm poor and disabled. I'm one of the first on the chopping block when the shit goes down. (Social safety nets keep me alive.) I can't PHYSICALLY do anything to help, so, respectfully, this kind of "stop being pessimistic" stuff feels ableist and dehumanizing. I'm not allowed to express my fear?

I feel like if people see me, people like me, expressing that they actually feel threatened, they may also feel motivated to do what they can. But right now it's catharsis and hoping others help, because that's all there is.

I can't speak for Faine, but how I feel is that it's legit to be afraid and express that. 🫂 But maybe that's different from defeatism? The stuff that bothers me is posts that seem to actively WANT *everyone* to be as freaked out as possible at all times. Responding to even good news with "we're 1/

fucked, no one is even trying to help" or going around trying to cut people's sources of emotional support out from under them. Zooming in on the worst things and pooh-poohing anything hopeful. Especially from big accounts with influence. I would rather folks just be gentle w/ each other, which 2/

I have hope. I've been ignoring the public defeatism. As soon as someone starts talking like that, it's like my brain switches channels from blah blah, no hope, to white noise and hope. People who belong to the Cheeto-Lini cult want us to feel defeated and I'm not giving them the pleasure.

I did my grieving the week of. Now it’s time to take our turn and plan for what the new political environment is going to be. Do the organizing that we believe is necessary, whether that’s political or mutual aid or a little of both.

I'm a Brit, but we've been where you are many times, with the dreadful Thatcher, Johnson & other Conservative wins. What seems like defeatism is just shock, grief etc. Everyone will take a different amount of time to recover & bounce back, but in time they will. I've seen it here over & over.

Those of us in the know can simultaneously acknowledge that this is gonna be rough but that it also won’t be permanent. For me, figuring out how to sabotage the incoming administration gets me up in the morning. Can’t find much will to fight when all you seek is darkness.

Even the Nazi thousand year reich only lasted for twelve, though the end was rather disastrous. But yeah, be resisting in all the ways, big and small.

I’m refusing to contribute to the economy in any meaningful way between 1/20/25 and the midterms. I pre-purchased essentials, including car parts, 🧻, cat sand, laundry sheets, dental work, glasses, etc. Readying to hunker down.

While I agree with you, I was born and raised in a fascist country, Drumph etal are currently well on track and part of what they do is that most people won’t even know what’s going on, that’s how it works, how much resistance do you see in Russia?

I think people need at outlet to vent and it feels good to be understood. I don’t think most people here are defeatist. They’re just sounding off loud enough for the people in the back to hear. Hang in there.

One challenge is that given how close the US Presidential election appeared to be until the results came in, liberals now have lost faith even in any hope that is offered. It seems that in contemporary Western society the hopeful can no longer be trusted to be close to the truth.

ngl idk how to be optimistic rn. the only optimism i'm seeing is from people who are naively optimistic and treating the incoming admin as a normal one. "oh, this cabinet pick isn't as bad as the other ones" - yeah, so what? they will do what trump wants or he will fire them. that's just how it goes

I presented a seminar to progressive political activists on this in 2004. The default for communities under attack is to give up, to think/argue about what to do, to postpone decisions. My takeaway: the top strategy for dealing with defeatists is not to argue, but start. Action breeds action. Begin.

Everyone is at different stages right now emotionally, especially going into the holidays. If you're able to speak with a therapist it might be helpful. While your friends may not be in same place you are right now.

Others are, immigrant and refugee legal centers near you may need help. Contact groups and non-profits who have already started the good fight. Be the change you want to see.

It’s been 10 of this, and many of us are just tired. We keep being told there will be accountability and nothing happens. We’re done pissing into the wind and are stepping back and taking care of our families, friends and local communities for a while.