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Women trying to succeed in Silicon Valley AI and effective altruist spaces are reporting feeling serious social pressure to attend sex parties - where people have reported being sexually assaulted, like below. Events like Aella’s “Slutcon,” which is happening again this weekend.

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The bizarre culture that’s sprung up around Silicon Valley AI companies - which overlaps hugely with rationalist and effective altruist circles - appears to be seriously pressuring some women into attending sex parties for the sake of networking. This is, needless to say, horrifying.

Women who like men and aren't afraid of them: most women you meet just about anywhere if you get out of the house. Women (and men for that matter) who are OK with strangers making intimate requests are indeed not ubiquitous. Is that what we're actually talking about here?

Here's a novel idea. These men, whether on the spectrum or just shy, should go to parties where enjoy casual conversation with women. They might even say something interesting or funny, get a favorable reaction and lower their fear. I have a hunch this would help a lot more than sex parties.

“What I personally find so frustrating is no one is ever given an ounce of grace for the understandable ways these conversations might blur. Whereas, men who act poorly are given a delusional amount of cover & protection. They say illogical things and get polite responses.” - on sexism in AI spaces.

As an autistic man myself, I find the notion that autistic men are somehow wholly incapable of understanding when they might make women uncomfortable to be ridiculous and frankly offensive. It is not an unknowable thing.

it's surprising to think of someone not developing a complex about -or at least noting patterns to- when people are made uncomfortable by them by adulthood

I guarantee you that if anyone ever did this to, for instance, Thiel - not simply challenge him, but express outright contempt toward his intellect, wrapped up in an insult - he would react as if he’s just been slapped across the face. No one talks down to these self-styled gods. And they should.

More comments from people in the Silicon Valley AI space on how centering group sex events in the scene is hostile to women:

Yes, Slutcon is real. And while there’s nothing wrong with this kind of event in perfect isolation, in the context of “women in Silicon Valley tech are reporting feeling serious social pressure to attend,” it becomes very gross. (BTW, Gretta is Eliezer Yudkowsky’s partner). slutcon.com

i think ai safety is just a marketing term made up by the gaslighting kink woman for the silicon valley groupsex scene

Why is Aella part of "AI Safety" at all? What are her qualifications outside of just knowing all the other people involved? Why does she have any power to "ice people out"?

I am genuinely aghast at the idea that "shy, awkward men are going to get useful information about how to interact with women from Sex Parties where consent is dubious." Like interacting with women in almost any other context seems far more productive.

Their defenders have tried some of this here on BlueSky in these very conversations. "These weirdos are holding sex parties as work events." "That's cool. Sex is normal and good for you. What are you some kind of sex negative prude?"

cnc being used casually is terrifying to me. people want to be kinky and don’t understand it can be very jarring to do things counter to the norm & the consequence of not having an experienced partner to understand the good feeling dump that happens after these parties.

theres a lot to unpack here regarding the nature of slutcon but based on everything ive learned over the past week, i think we should just throw the suitcase away and maybe incinerate it too for good measure

Sounds an awful lot like how women in Hollywood were expected to hook up with creeps like Harvey Weinstein and other industry bigwigs if they wanted their careers to go anywhere. Every group of oligarchs finds a way to reinvent sexual exploitation of the women in their industry.

I mean the whole point of AI is to sidestep how creatives might refuse your demands- so you create a way of violating them, so them having a warped view of consent doesn't surprise me

God they call it SlutCon. It’s insanely insulting. If it’s meant to help these hapless men shouldn’t it be LimpDixcon?

Sounds like AI boy-gods trying to reinvent & reassert the Trump/Mad Men ethos, where the work world is their sexual happy hunting ground & women the prey. Plucky career gals are advised to update their resumes to include that non-consensual consent kink. No wonder they wanna keep the GOP in charge!

So, uh, wait. Do they hire one bunch of prostitutes to make another bunch of insecure men feel good about themselves? I don't think you need a convention to do that.

Having watched this subculture evolve from when it began to appear in SF-and still mostly a tech optimist, I want to stuff this into the cringe category of “tech bros reinventing stupid stuff that doesn’t need to be reinvented..” but it’s far more creepy, corrosive and dehumanizing.

THIS. If you know Wicked Grounds, you'll know that we're big fans of exploring "sluttiness" and kink safely. Being pressured to explore by colleagues is the opposite of consent culture. Period. Exclamation point.

The Citadel specifically hasn't existed in years, but you're right that there are MANY safe places to explore this stuff, and there is absolutely no reason to align sex parties with an entire industry's networking opportunities.

I want to be in the timeline where "AI safety" is a fun Redhat kind of Larpy discipline of checking how many classified memos Gemeni binged on last week rather than a figurative and literal fellatio of the ML engineer bros Its clearly a caste system being engineered in real time to My eyes

This. “AI safety“ should just be good old fashioned data privacy and security, but with LLMs thrown in. Instead it is rapey shitheads who think they’re Odd John but are actually just deeply stupid.

One of the ways I could tell it was a hype cycle was that everyone is talking about how “everything is changed and everything that came before is irrelevant” when it’s all 98% exactly the same. Because it always is.

This feels like an extreme version of the environment I’ve experienced in so many nerd spaces (gaming, comics) where women in the space learn to tank enormous amounts of misogyny and abuse because the only way to survive is to prove you’re “one of the guys” or you can “take a joke” or whatever. 😔

just complete breakdown of humanity and especially gentility. fuck, man. be a real man: be kind and respectful to women.

I kind of assumed that. Not specifically "slutcon", which is grotesque, but being held accountable at all for sexual harassment or making disparaging and offensive comments to coworkers. Of course they hate HR.

I will never stop being baffled by how the woman who got big by posting nudes with gnomes on reddit became such a key figure in this space

This stuff keeps reminding me of Gamergate. And then I think back further, to when women were the "computers" and then became the main programmers who might be called developers today.

In some ways it’s worse in that these women now feel pressured to attend weird orgies just to have a career…

I list a ton of commissions in the 80’s when I kneeled my boss who I refused to bed. Same as it ever was today just orgies vs one guy.

"Do xyz sexual thing to have a career" is integral in a lot of industries unfortunately, this is just exceptionally well documented.

Sadly, this whole thing takes me back to my 20s & the problematic sex & gender relations in the bleeding-edge tech scenes of the 1980s. Same personalities involved, but there’s a *lot* more $$$ & power at play now, making things even more fraught.

It's rare for a fire marshal to get to be just praised by the entirety of Bluesky but whoever pulls the ripcord on the networking&rape event is going to be the hero of this place. Holy shit this is fucking grim

It's always interesting how often this sexual aggression gets gussied up by some form of post-enlightenment buttressing. A lot of these people group everything into "hangups about sex" as having nonsensical cultural roots and boy, that's not it.

I think it's part of a broader narrative of right wing moral bypassing. Hierarchies of domination and control are justified for the purpose of self-gratification. These justifications seem to become more and more delusional as the moral inconsistency of the act/desire increases.

isn’t this obvious- hold your own women’s networking event somewhere else? (Including somewhere fairly local and inexpensive. )

I’ll wager that virtually every male in the entire Silicon Valley is a misogynist, straight up #SiliconValleyMisogyny is legend #GamerGate #EngineeringMisogyny

I mean this is obviously horrifying but also let's be real about this being the inevitable endpoint of Effective Altruism. People who believe they aren't actually beholden to ethical concerns with newfound access to power (and in many cases with bad social skills).

I can't even imagine AI as world changing technology when it bundles itself to something as stupid as "slutcon" as a major networking event instead of, like, a conference. It's weird and gross and you don't have to be a prude to think these are all just horny teens with no sense of propriety.

Is this an event that happens at “Skyhaven”? Not to get all prudish but that place is directly across the street from a middle school. I hope it’s only a weekend thing

It's as though this scam for manipulation just comes from a bunch of predators. bsky.app/profile/fain...

Faine Greenwood@faineg.com

Women trying to succeed in Silicon Valley AI and effective altruist spaces are reporting feeling serious social pressure to attend sex parties - where people have reported being sexually assaulted, like below. Events like Aella’s “Slutcon,” which is happening again this weekend.

This is horrifying but not an EA space? Most EAs are not rationalists (nor longtermists), most rationalists are not EAs, and the owner of Lighthaven, specifically, hates EA. There’s a Venn diagram of overlap between these groups but that overlap doesn’t seem enough to justify treating this as EA?

I read that article at the time and agree that is bad. And EA has had issues with sexual harrsssment and abuse. But beside the demographic lack of overlap a big difference between EA and rationalists is EA kicks the abusers out. Literally people get banned from the forum and from coming to events.

I look at this like the Dem party. Across several thousand people without unified control, some people (in power or not) will be really shitty. But the Dems usually (not always) kick out the bad guys. While this is not true of the GOP. EA should do better, but that doesn’t make them the rationalists

Far from the most important problem here but a culture that is hostile to women and encourages extreme blurring of work/life boundaries is going to exacerbate most nerdy men in the scene's issues finding and talking to women, heightening their resentment. Sexism is self-perpetuating this way.

....the fact that "sex parties" and "slutcon" are apparently a thing is just sad. (Especially when this happens. Why can't we have a consenual slutcon?)

I was and continue to be a complete and utter asshole, from the age of 13 on, and I've managed to love and be loved by others. These fuckwits have not been able to do so, but want to bestow their hate on all of us for never having been able to get laid. If my horrible self can manage to be given

I’m confused about how you can have a cnc event and not have very clear and obvious and visible rules about signaling a real “no” especially for people new to the practice (which should be assumed given the context). It’s hella weird for this to be an industry networking event…its giving huge ick.

Oh no, I just remembered a sci-fi short story I read on LessWrong where was a throw-away line the "Prohibition" of consent had been done away with and future generations were happier for it. The audience then voted for the lewd ending. These Rationalist people believed this stuff all along...

So when we were all joking techbros keep forcing AI on us because they don't understand consent, it was much closer to the mark than we realized???

This week is the first time I've heard of effective altruism. Even reading this thread and looking it up, I still don't understand what it is. I don't say this to have someone educate on it. It's the fact I don't understand what the hell it is the problem.

On a more superficial note. Effective altruism sounds really stupid. Doing good doesn't need pretentious adjectives. You do it because it is the right thing. Be it helping someone carry groceries or creating a program to help the least fortunate.

I went to Georgia Tech in the ‘80s and the notion of computer science nerds having a lot of sex offends me to my core. That is denying the very nature of nerddom and they’re only able to do it because they’re ridiculously rich.

Except the swingers clubs were attended by people who wanted to be there or not people who felt coerced to be there to keep their job jobs.

When younger I was invited to a scattering of swingers parties, which is not my scene and I told the askers that I was flattered to be invited, but that really wasn’t my scene and I didn’t think I would enjoy it and they said “OK”. There was no pressure.

effectively, the entire corporate structure of america runs like this. "you must go to the annual convention to get drunk & molested to continue existing in (x) industry". the angle from 'altruist rationalists' defending it with "but we are left leaning so its okay" is Missing Stair bullshit.

its about power, always is like this. that the men in power should get a 'reward' for being successful & that it should be done by force. like, the people pursuing 'AGI' to become a digital warlord that can control humanity... they arent a 'necessary evil', they are just evil.

if they dont care about human safety, they dont care about 'ai safety'. the only way of fixing this frat cultism that pushes women (& anyone that doesnt play around with this evil) is by unionizing the tech industry as a whole. no more Unnecessary Evil abusive corporate power structure!

All these tech bros whose most intimate relationships seem to be with algorithms trying to force actual human women to have sex with them. If it wasn’t so disgusting and outrageous it would be pathetic

Just learning about this. Read the promo material. This is the dumbest thing ive ever heard of. Its not going to transfer to the real world. What does transfer? Treat every woman like they are a lesbian. Find out what they are interested in. Talk to them about it. Just be cool. It works.

Same with autistic men. Teach them to talk about their autism when meeting people and teach them ways to ask questions about other people's interests. Slutcon is just going to teach them about doing tgings in the context of an event that won't work outside that event.

Have they been Sodom&Gomorrah'd already? If wannabe hire told me they paid to attend SC, there's the door. There's no excuse beyond what Trent sang some 30+ yrs ago. Go be an animal, eternal 13yr old, but not on my $. These people need therapy, not sex (bc they will/do fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck it up).

Sent a 🐁 to counseling once. They at least bright enough to reach me before doing the ultra dumb shit. Didn't do it for them, I did it for the others that would have got hurt. Told them that. Sometimes you have to tell them str8 they are weak/fragile souls and send them to therapy.

Yep, I can hold full house hand of physically transcendent exp while variantly clothed and still call these groups a fucking nuisance and parasites on their best day.

And if you attend thinking you can avoid it, then you're complicit in your abuse. Men get "cancelled" in their career for creepy behavior. Women get pre-cancelled--they never even get to have that career. It's the casting couch of Silicon Valley; the "culture fit" we're supposed to respect.

I don't see much difference between this and the Epstein - Gates - Summers - Pinker sci tech conferences also attended by teenage girls and very young women who didn't speak English.

Welcome to America where we treat women like property and people w more melanin than them as animals to be caged. I am so ashamed of what we are allowing to happen.

Obviously what's being described is awful, but as an aside I'm not a fan of OP insinuating that the people who don't understand consent are autistic. It's incredibly simplistic to assume that "nerd = autistic", and it harms a minority to say autistic people don't understand consent.

I would say a more common autistic situation would be to totally miss cues that someone likes you. It's the sense of entitlement that differentiates these people, not whether they're neuro typical or not.

What OP is describing is explained perfectly well by (nerdy) neurotypical people engaging in bog-standard rape culture, let's not drag a minority here for the actions of some male rapists

I'm not exactly shedding tears for the women who are finding their seats on The Death Machine That Steals to be uncomfortable. If you want a seat at the table full of evil sick fucks like Peter Thiel and Sam Altman... what about this is surprising? This can't be surprising to any of them.

Maybe you want a seat at that table so you can say, "Look, you evil sick fucks, stop it!" No reason for it to be a DMTS. Scan grocery fliers, compile best deals/coupons, & easiest/best car/bike/bus route to get them. Bonus? Link me to neighbours who need help picking things up b/c illness/childcare.

Reading some of these like "oh it's just to help the autistic men in tech get used to women" is absolutely fucking disgusting. Not denying that dating on the spectrum is hard, but that does not excuse sexual harassment.

Awareness of this world (or rather, the one just below it) was the proverbial straw that made me finally embrace pessimistic-aceness. Human sexuality is powerful and 99% of the time inherently abusive/exploitative. Too many men are wired to be rapists and the rest largely don't care.

So the conceit is their scene is the smartest people in the world, out to solve existential threats- but they're not worried about alienating smart women who are ace, gay, monogamous, or just not into mixing their sex and work lives?

It sure sounds like aggressively recruiting people of all genders to get them used to the practices of an industry based on taking without consent, and its flavors of justification.

Wow, as a mechanical engineer and generally weird nerdy woman I would never attend anything where a hillbilly is allowed to even talk to me without consent. I don't talk to men unless they ask first if I want to or even have time. The answer is always NO.

I think everyone should be free to enjoy their sex life with other consenting adults without judgement, but this is like taking everything BAD about the office holiday party and turning up to 11.

And those lads will end up going nowhere in the industry because their parents raised them well? Dodgy parties for recruiting, networking, grooming and (presumably) gathering blackmail material; effectively freezing out women, H1B-holders, religious ppl, LGBT ppl, wife guys and decent, kind men.

Coercion is ubiquitous anywhere the rewards, money, influence are hoarded by a tiny elite. In SV it’s people connected to the VCs, in entertainment execs, producers, etc. These structures exist to reproduce power. The cultishness arises out pf pressure to be part of the “in” group.

Future generations (if they exist) are going to boggle at the fact that we allowed a third of the economy to be run by idiot sex pest cult freaks. Every AI company should be seized by the next dem government and everyone involved thrown into jail as a public health measure

I am really icked out that sex party attendance would be a key career requirement in a non sex industry career. It’s like bad enough if you’re ascension of the greasy pole is hindered because you’re not going down the pub with the right people all the time

Anne Pierce is literally going off about how autistic people are lesser on Twitter right now and equates autism with being a rapist in this post. She's really not a voice to help amplify in any way.

As someone active in the kink community. I have to agree with op. In isolation, nothing wrong with kinky fetish party stuff. However pressuring women to attend is disgusting. It shifts the tone from "a bunch of weirdos with like minds " to "participate in my kink so i can screw you" no excuse.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around Aella being at the center of all this, because I hadn’t thought about her in several years and only knew her as a big weirdo on Twitter who I assumed people knew about just because she was such a freak. It does explains lot though.

Well, that's going to take some brain bleach. I'm glad I moved about 16 years ago. I had a very nice time (thought it was not drama free) in the one of the polyam communities in the SFBA, and I'm glad I never saw this shit come to pass.

It's wild to me that Adam Conover was initially a guest for Slutcon. He bailed on it, but either he or his agent's awful at picking gigs as it was nearly another "WorldCoin Video". Similarly, as WorldCoin's a Sam Altman thing & his & Aella's ties to EA, it feels like TESCREAL is chasing Conover.

this could definitely be taken as her riffing, tbf, but it does feel plausible considering his very public antipathy toward her entire social circle and industry.

Yeah, they've gotta think at some level he's either one of them, or that he could be turned and so would get his platform, and somehow have having Ed Zitron on his podcast hasn't clarified to them that Conover is the kind of skeptic who debunks their clique, not participates in it.

Idk, I’m not anywhere near this But my instincts tell me that there’s an overuse of Porn, which leads to smutty thinking, shallow sex chasing and bimbo aesthetics It’s not really that hard to understand People are lonely, they use porn their brains get wired they cos play

I know someone who was involved in the very early days of the EA movement, when it was still bed-nets and worming fluid and earnestly calculating QALYs per $. Even then there was a fairly yikes element to the community - for starters, she turned 18 that year and was living with a 35yo academic!

I don’t say ’rationalist circles‘ automatically means rationalising being a weird sex pest but we are rationalising animals after all. FWIW my pal H is maybe the most determinedly moral person I know but at 17 she did tend to believe everyone else was as honest and well-intentioned as her.